Comments on: I’d Apologize, But I’d Be Lying. http://www.4thletter.net/2008/03/id-apologize-but-id-be-lying/ we like talking about comics, and hopefully you like reading us talking about comics. Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:07:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Menshevik http://www.4thletter.net/2008/03/id-apologize-but-id-be-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-17963 Menshevik Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:21:12 +0000 http://www.4thletter.net/?p=1087#comment-17963 Um, no. The Jungle Books are not about "the White Man's Burden", even if people who proceed from the preconceived notion that if Kipling was an imperialist, everything he wrote must be imperialist and colonialist propaganda. However, in his stories and poems he expressed a multitude of points of views, some of which seriously question the fond beliefs of British imperialism. For instance, Queen Victoria apparently was not amused by RK's contribution to her Golden Jubilee, "What the People Said" (1887), a poem about a Punjabi plough-man who sees the British as merely the latest in a series of conquerors, not the first to conquer the North of India and not fated to remain in place: "Mogul, Mahratta and Mlech from the North, "And White Queen over the Seas - "God raiseth them up and driveth them forth "As the dust of the ploughshare flies in the breeze; "But the wheat and the cattle are all my care, "And the rest is the will of God." The idea of Mowgli's relationship to the animals of the jungle is an allegory of colonialism simply does not hold up to scrutiny. Mowgli (who by the way is Indian by birth, not white) does not go about imposing his law and civilization onto the jungle, he survives and succeeds because he learns to conform and to submit to the Law of the Jungle which existed before he was born and which is unaffected his actions. In this process he becomes so assimilated that he later finds it almost impossible to fit in with human society again. In the jungle he becomes an associate of the Seeonee wolf-pack but not its leader, in the end he leaves the jungle, essentially as it was before, to rejoin Man. (In the Mowgli stories human society is essentially Indian village society). By the way, The Second Jungle Book also contains the interesting and much-discussed story of a synthesis of Western and Indian traditions, "The Miracle of Purun Bhagat". Um, no. The Jungle Books are not about “the White Man’s Burden”, even if people who proceed from the preconceived notion that if Kipling was an imperialist, everything he wrote must be imperialist and colonialist propaganda. However, in his stories and poems he expressed a multitude of points of views, some of which seriously question the fond beliefs of British imperialism. For instance, Queen Victoria apparently was not amused by RK’s contribution to her Golden Jubilee, “What the People Said” (1887), a poem about a Punjabi plough-man who sees the British as merely the latest in a series of conquerors, not the first to conquer the North of India and not fated to remain in place:
“Mogul, Mahratta and Mlech from the North,
“And White Queen over the Seas –
“God raiseth them up and driveth them forth
“As the dust of the ploughshare flies in the breeze;
“But the wheat and the cattle are all my care,
“And the rest is the will of God.”

The idea of Mowgli’s relationship to the animals of the jungle is an allegory of colonialism simply does not hold up to scrutiny. Mowgli (who by the way is Indian by birth, not white) does not go about imposing his law and civilization onto the jungle, he survives and succeeds because he learns to conform and to submit to the Law of the Jungle which existed before he was born and which is unaffected his actions. In this process he becomes so assimilated that he later finds it almost impossible to fit in with human society again. In the jungle he becomes an associate of the Seeonee wolf-pack but not its leader, in the end he leaves the jungle, essentially as it was before, to rejoin Man. (In the Mowgli stories human society is essentially Indian village society). By the way, The Second Jungle Book also contains the interesting and much-discussed story of a synthesis of Western and Indian traditions, “The Miracle of Purun Bhagat”.

]]> By: Lynxara http://www.4thletter.net/2008/03/id-apologize-but-id-be-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-17915 Lynxara Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:07:35 +0000 http://www.4thletter.net/?p=1087#comment-17915 It is pretty sad just how many weird racist relics get to hang around comics and get "rehabilitated" just because of the community's inexplicable fascination with old things. It is pretty sad just how many weird racist relics get to hang around comics and get “rehabilitated” just because of the community’s inexplicable fascination with old things.

]]> By: Ben http://www.4thletter.net/2008/03/id-apologize-but-id-be-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-17881 Ben Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:58:13 +0000 http://www.4thletter.net/?p=1087#comment-17881 Oh snap! Oh snap!

]]> By: Owesome http://www.4thletter.net/2008/03/id-apologize-but-id-be-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-17847 Owesome Mon, 17 Mar 2008 00:58:08 +0000 http://www.4thletter.net/?p=1087#comment-17847 I totally parsed "The trope of “One Lone Lantern-Jawed White Guy" as "One Lone Green Lantern Guy." I need to get out more. I totally parsed “The trope of “One Lone Lantern-Jawed White Guy” as “One Lone Green Lantern Guy.”

I need to get out more.

]]> By: LurkerWithout http://www.4thletter.net/2008/03/id-apologize-but-id-be-lying/comment-page-1/#comment-17844 LurkerWithout Sun, 16 Mar 2008 23:30:02 +0000 http://www.4thletter.net/?p=1087#comment-17844 *Reads about Johns and Robinson's bonding* Urgh. Please don't suck. PLEASE don't suck... *Reads about Johns and Robinson’s bonding*

Urgh. Please don’t suck. PLEASE don’t suck…

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