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	<title>Comments on: On Criticism and Art</title>
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	<description>we like talking about comics, and hopefully you like reading us talking about comics.</description>
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		<title>By: Funnybook Babylon &#183; Archives &#183; Quick Rant on Criticism</title>
		<link>http://www.4thletter.net/2008/08/on-criticism-and-art/comment-page-1/#comment-19555</link>
		<dc:creator>Funnybook Babylon &#183; Archives &#183; Quick Rant on Criticism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 00:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.4thletter.net/?p=1354#comment-19555</guid>
		<description>[...] 1 minute ago I wanted to add my 2¢ to the current debate about &#8220;Comics Criticism&#8221; that David Brothers over at 4th Letter 4th Letter has already [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 1 minute ago I wanted to add my 2¢ to the current debate about &#8220;Comics Criticism&#8221; that David Brothers over at 4th Letter 4th Letter has already [...]</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2008-08-12 [delicious.com]</title>
		<link>http://www.4thletter.net/2008/08/on-criticism-and-art/comment-page-1/#comment-19485</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2008-08-12 [delicious.com]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.4thletter.net/?p=1354#comment-19485</guid>
		<description>[...] 4thletter! » Blog Archive » On Criticism and Art Ah, another piece to the ongoing creator/critic debate. (tags: comics criticism) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 4thletter! » Blog Archive » On Criticism and Art Ah, another piece to the ongoing creator/critic debate. (tags: comics criticism) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Unimaginative Pseudonym</title>
		<link>http://www.4thletter.net/2008/08/on-criticism-and-art/comment-page-1/#comment-19483</link>
		<dc:creator>Unimaginative Pseudonym</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.4thletter.net/?p=1354#comment-19483</guid>
		<description>I think the point Kurtz (et al) is trying to get across is that there are a number of critics who consider themselves - and criticism in general - to be just as important in the creative process as &lt;i&gt;creators&lt;/i&gt;. 

(There are also some who believe that critics are &lt;b&gt;more&lt;/b&gt; important, but I think the former is enough to annoy creators like Kurtz)

Vitally, though, it&#039;s not the &#039;standing over the shoulder&#039; concept that&#039;s the problem (really, any critic doing that is just a rabid, overly-entitled fan) - it&#039;s the &#039;my critique adds value - or even legitimacy to your work&#039; idea that grates on people.

For example - a number of webcomic discourse sites popped up around the same time, and some went as far as to state that &lt;i&gt;now&lt;/i&gt; [these critical sites existed] webcomics had legitimacy. Which is a silly statement on a number of levels - but the most pertinent being that people talking about webcomics can&#039;t really have more impact on the medium than people &lt;i&gt;creating&lt;/i&gt; webcomics. 

It should be very easy to see why this mentality annoyed artists.

I&#039;m not saying that criticism isn&#039;t valid - I for one enjoy criticism of my work (but I&#039;m arrogant enough to ignore the bits I disagree with, so it&#039;s easier to enjoy...), and I suspect that Kurtz isn&#039;t saying that either. 

But I do agree with the mentality that it isn&#039;t as valuable as creation - no critique is more important than the work it&#039;s based on; no work becomes greater simply because it has been critiqued... and so on. 

You get my point (I hope).

(oh and of course I&#039;m well aware that I&#039;m talking about a subset of critics here - Kurtz&#039; problem is that he&#039;s somewhat conflated that subset (and some others) into &#039;all critics everywhere&#039;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the point Kurtz (et al) is trying to get across is that there are a number of critics who consider themselves &#8211; and criticism in general &#8211; to be just as important in the creative process as <i>creators</i>. </p>
<p>(There are also some who believe that critics are <b>more</b> important, but I think the former is enough to annoy creators like Kurtz)</p>
<p>Vitally, though, it&#8217;s not the &#8217;standing over the shoulder&#8217; concept that&#8217;s the problem (really, any critic doing that is just a rabid, overly-entitled fan) &#8211; it&#8217;s the &#8216;my critique adds value &#8211; or even legitimacy to your work&#8217; idea that grates on people.</p>
<p>For example &#8211; a number of webcomic discourse sites popped up around the same time, and some went as far as to state that <i>now</i> [these critical sites existed] webcomics had legitimacy. Which is a silly statement on a number of levels &#8211; but the most pertinent being that people talking about webcomics can&#8217;t really have more impact on the medium than people <i>creating</i> webcomics. </p>
<p>It should be very easy to see why this mentality annoyed artists.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that criticism isn&#8217;t valid &#8211; I for one enjoy criticism of my work (but I&#8217;m arrogant enough to ignore the bits I disagree with, so it&#8217;s easier to enjoy&#8230;), and I suspect that Kurtz isn&#8217;t saying that either. </p>
<p>But I do agree with the mentality that it isn&#8217;t as valuable as creation &#8211; no critique is more important than the work it&#8217;s based on; no work becomes greater simply because it has been critiqued&#8230; and so on. </p>
<p>You get my point (I hope).</p>
<p>(oh and of course I&#8217;m well aware that I&#8217;m talking about a subset of critics here &#8211; Kurtz&#8217; problem is that he&#8217;s somewhat conflated that subset (and some others) into &#8216;all critics everywhere&#8217;)</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Coyle</title>
		<link>http://www.4thletter.net/2008/08/on-criticism-and-art/comment-page-1/#comment-19481</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Coyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.4thletter.net/?p=1354#comment-19481</guid>
		<description>While on the one hand, I can see someone responding to Johanna Carlson like that, especially given her jaw-dropping &quot;review&quot; of &lt;i&gt;The Black Dossier&lt;/i&gt;, and her history of picking fights on Usenet and passive-aggressive attitude, &lt;i&gt;none of that was on display in her review&lt;/i&gt;. It seemed a reasonable response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While on the one hand, I can see someone responding to Johanna Carlson like that, especially given her jaw-dropping &#8220;review&#8221; of <i>The Black Dossier</i>, and her history of picking fights on Usenet and passive-aggressive attitude, <i>none of that was on display in her review</i>. It seemed a reasonable response.</p>
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		<title>By: david brothers</title>
		<link>http://www.4thletter.net/2008/08/on-criticism-and-art/comment-page-1/#comment-19479</link>
		<dc:creator>david brothers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 07:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.4thletter.net/?p=1354#comment-19479</guid>
		<description>Jonathan, as a Holocaust denier and 9/11 truther, what is your (undoubtedly) carefully measured position on the fact that nothing you have ever said or produced is of any intellectual or emotional worth?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan, as a Holocaust denier and 9/11 truther, what is your (undoubtedly) carefully measured position on the fact that nothing you have ever said or produced is of any intellectual or emotional worth?</p>
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